Discourse #8
Taxes are Illegal
(part 3)

In article <78i7ih$r43$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
milt0506@my-dejanews.com wrote:

Milt:

> They do not. The companies do. The unions give the employees a bargaining
> position and nothing more.

Dave: Generally speaking, union members pay their dues--say $30 per month--in exchange for a set wage--say $20 per hour. But this is merely an "A" point. "The" point is that taxes are illegal. And The Local Group guarantees the end of taxation--forever. See http://localgroup.8m.com or email localgroup@usa.net to learn how taxes will be replaced by market rates for government protection.

Milt:
> Then why do so many companies not pay their employees more, and offer them
> better benefits, to stave off union membership.

Dave: The majority of companies offer employees the most they can without going bankrupt. This is in the interest of companies to retain employees who would otherwise flock to better-paying jobs.

Milt:
> After all, employees can vote
> to not be represented, and they can vote to end union affiliation at any time.

Dave: If you went to work at a unionized company--say a plumbing company--do you know what would happen to you if you resisted joining the union? Or worse: what would happen to you if you attempted to dissolve the union? To put it mildly, you would come under attack from those who profit from union booty.

Milt:
> Many large, very competitive companies have never dealt with unions because
> they offer fair wage, good benes, and treat their employees like they're
> humans, and not cattle.

Dave: Yes. And in a laissez-faire capitalist system free of government interference, free-market dynamics weed out companies that cannot afford to pay fair wages, offer benefits, and so on. Only the most competitve companies survive. Everyone benefits--even the "losers". The "losers" become free to go into an industry, career, or job where they can make the greatest contribution and thereby reap the greatest rewards from their effort.

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In article <36a9f11d.137390952@news.earthlink.net>,
milt@law.com wrote:

> Something tells me David would LOVE a little Soylent green with his sherry.
> Of course, in his world, the sherry won't exist, because in his world,
> everyone is entrepreneurial, and no one is available to pick the grapes and
> pick up his trash......

In the forthcoming rational civilization, which could unfold by 2001, life will switch from a criminal-driven world to a business-driven world. This means, in practical terms, that entrepreneurs will lead life on earth rather than politicians.

Entrepreneurs will create profitable businesses to pick grapes, pick up trash, serve food, and so on. The point is that not everyone will be entrepreneurs, but entrepreneurs will create the dynamics necessary for unlimited prosperity, health, romance, and happiness.

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In article <78jkbt$82v$1@winter.news.rcn.net>,
"Champ" <wendellpai@erols.com> wrote:

Champ:
> I think many of the U.S. government attacks on Gates are indeed bogus. A
> browser embedded within the operating system makes sense, it removes the
> barrier between the net and local computers. On the other hand, Gates has
> certainly been on shaky ground with stealing patents. Presumably, this is
> one are where the government should be acting as it concerns property
> rights, of the intellectual kind at least. What is your stance concerning
> intellectual property?...

Hunter: Intellectual property is just as real as physical property. Both forms of property must be protected from infringement, destruction, or theft. As protectors of each citizen's person and property, the government has the responsibililty to protect intellectual property--i.e., patents and copyrights--along with physical property--i.e., homes, cars, etc.

Champ:
> Also, please expound on the Local Group's stance re:
> Alanis and Janet Jackson.

Dave: Alanis Morisette is advancing earth's anticivilization with her music. But this is *not* an attack on the quality of her music. People could genuinely enjoy her work. As her commercial success indicates, many people do enjoy it.

The reason why her work is advancing the anticivilization is due to the lyrics and messages flowing from songs such as "Ironic". This and similar songs affirm irrationality, illogic, failure, and losses as metaphysically predominant when in fact irrationality and failure are impotent artifacts of the anticivilization. In a rational civilization, the idea of singing about failure, losses, and irrationality is unknown. Still, The Local Group will fiercely defend Alanis's right to sing whatever she wants just as it will defend Janet's right to sing whatever she wants.

Janet Jackson's music, such as "Control", reflects the beauty, harmony, and self-efficacy that pervades a rational civilization--and Objectivist Civilization, which is the Civilization of the Universe. Janet's work affirms the values of personal growth, individuality, self-control, and self- fulfillment, all of which mirror The Local Group's philosophical stance.

For a complete listing of Universal Melodies, enter The Local Group at http://localgroup.8m.com and click on Universal Melodies. There you will find supreme melodies by artists ranging from Bach to Mozart to Beethoven to Chopin to Rachmaninoff to Scott Joplin to James Brown to Triumph to Rush to Janet Jackson and many more.

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In article <2867-36ACDAB1-152@newsd-244.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
haarli@webtv.net (Lisa Rochwarg) wrote:

Lisa says:
> Well, looky here. The Saturday
> Boston Herald reports that three adults
> living in Massachusetts were killed by
> Listeria bacteria found in Sara Lee
> products.

David replies: If this is true, then Sara Lee should correct its mistake and compensate the families of those who were killed by its products.

Lisa says:
> I know what the Libertarian solution to that is. Abolish the USDA! Too
> much government intervention! Why should the casualty rate be three
> when it can be three thousand!

David replies: the Libertarian solution is to abolish the FDA, along with all other regulatory bureaucracies. Too much government intervention, yes! Only governments can mass-murder by the hundreds, thousands, millions. Not sure about this? Take a look at Stalin's Russia, Hitler's Germany, or Mao's China.

Lisa says:
> Libertarianism is exactly as rational as
> comet-worshipping...

David replies: Libertarianism is the foundation upon which America was born. Libertarianism makes infinitely more sense then does socialism, fascism, communism, and totalitarianism.

Lisa says:
> No wonder their
> candidates never get more than 2 percent
> of the vote.

David replies: Everyone's mind is scrambled with 2400 years of Platonic hoaxes. Therefore, voters think they will benefit from electing criminal-minded icons--from Lincoln to Wilson to FDR to Clinton--and they falsely believe that politicians and government can take care of them. Remove Plato's Grand Illusions and voila: Individuals realize that each person is responsible for his or her own life. Today, anyone can de-Platonize his or her self by perusing Perfect Mind/Perfect Body located at http://localgroup.8m.com

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In article <9075-36AFC6AB-45@newsd-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
haarli@webtv.net (Lisa Rochwarg) wrote:

> Admittedly, unions are in bad shape,
> Kenneth. Morale is bad, and the leaders
> act more like CEOs than members of the
> working class...

> But bashing unions even more is not going
> to solve a thing...

Are you in favor of unions? In theory and practice, unions have a reverse- evolution effect: The worst gain easy livelihoods while the best carry nearly all the weight of workload for the same pay. Essentially, the worst prosper at the expense of the best. Is this the genre of societal principles you advocate? If so, why?

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In article <Pine.GSO.3.95qL.990127020021.4120A-100000@ciao.cc.columbia.edu>,
Daniel Hugh Nexon <dhn2@columbia.edu> wrote:

Dan:

> ...Without standards of reasonable precaution set by the government, how
> would one have a fair and consistent basis upon which to apply liability
> criteria?...

Dave: Companies--not government--set the standards of precaution relating to their particular businesses. If a company--such as the Sara Lee example--makes an error, then the government can administer justice and compensate the victim. In such a case as Sara Lee, the government is totally justified to procure rightful compensation to the victims of corporate mistakes.

Dan:
> ...Why should the Listers be satisfied with monetary compensation
> and not want proactive protective action?...

Dave: Proactive protective action--and preventative laws--violates the fundamental nature of conscious beings, namely: volition. Man must be free to exercise his volitional mind in every area of life. This opens up the possibility for corporate mistakes or worse--intentional theft and murder. But in a rational society, anyone who initiates force, along with its corollaries of coercion and fraud, will rightly be prosecuted. And that is the *only* justifiable reason for government. Moreover, in a post-mortal world--a world that The Local Group is now bringing down to earth--computerized ostracism will drastically reduce incentive to commit objective crimes.

Dan:
> ...Yes, totalitarian
> regimes can commit mass killings; but non-governmental groups are pretty
> capable themselves (e.g. the joyous Cultural Revolution, secessionists in
> Bosnia, Liberia, Sierra Leone....)...

Dave: Lisa implies that business is capable of killing "thousands". In reality, no business has ever engaged in mass murder. Business exists to solve problems, to deliver values, to lift everybody's life. They are not in business to murder.

Dan:
> ...But basically, this is an apples and
> oranges comparison: Lisa sez it would be good for liberal democracies to
> regulate market activity; David responds by saying totalitarian regimes
> are bad. Non-sequitor...

Dave: The mass-murder example was to illustrate a point. Government intervention in the economy--whether "practical" regulations in America or overtly oppressive regulations in China--always requires increasing intervention. And that increasing intervention inexorably requires even more intervention. Eventually, Americans go from a Republic to a Democracy to a Socialist State to a Welfare State and beyond. Fortunately, that "beyond" will never materialize. The Local Group will reverse the trend of encroaching statism in order to free everyone. Enter The Local Group at http://localgroup.8m.com to get the full scoop.

Dan:
> Dan replies: you, sir, need to study early American political theory. You
> obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

Dave: America's founding fathers did not have explicit knowledge of Libertarian principles. But the point here is that the founding fathers acted on implicit Libertarian principles--e.g., overthrowing King George III's oppression, rebelling against taxation, establishing a land where people are free to pursue their own interests and happiness.

Dan:
> Another non-sequitor.

Dave: Plato's philosophy--particularly his bizarre epistemology--not only laid the foundation for earth's hopelessly corrupt civilization, but it opened the door for all kinds of irrational philosophies that harmed everyone. From Plato's work arose works by Plotinus, Augustine, Berkeley, Hume, Kant, et. al. And all such work left everyone reeling, cognitively speaking. Today, individuals can get down on their knees and thank Ms. Rand for the tool that enables even the most scrambled minds to think clearly. That tool is Objectivist philosophy.

Dan:
> I think I remember saying something before about how Heidegger is the last
> one, to my knowledge, to treat Platonism as some sort of metaphysical
> agent culpable for the plight of contemporary humankind...

Dave: Think harder. Objectivism, Neo-Tech, and The Local Group--as well as Martin Heidegger--reveal that Plato is the first and greatest destroyer of mankind. If this sounds like an interesting topic, email The Local Group at localgroup@usa.net or simply peruse the newest online book located at http://localgroup.8m.com.

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In article <36b01423.4160313@news.teleport.com>,
daveseid@teleport.com (David Seidman) wrote:

Seidman:
> Wouldn't it be a lot better if they weren't dead?...

Hunter: Yes.

Seidman:
> ...monopolies have caused millions to die by
> poverty, hundreds of thousands of coal miners have died of black lung
> disease, many others suffered because of business...

Hunter: Let's try an experiment. We'll eliminate business for one decade. All we'll have is government. Then there will not be "naked" greed, profits, etc. Wait: David L. Hunter's philosophical antipode already conducted such an experiment. His name is Adolf Hitler. And his experiment was the conversion of the Weimar Republic into the Third Reich. Is this the kind of penis-collapsing world you long for? Viktor Frankl lived in Hitler's anti-business world. And he'll tell you it's no fun.

Seidman:
> ...We've tried non-intervention
> under the Articles of Confederation. It didn't work...

Hunter: What do you mean non-intervention didn't work? The closest thing we've had to non-interventionism was the Gilded Age of America during the 19th century. That era begot unprecedented wealth, opulence, happiness, opportunity. And that relatively free period gave birth to some of the greatest benefactors mankind has ever known: Cornelius Vanderbilt, John D. Rockefeller, Jay Gould, and Andrew Carnegie. Only after Kantian philosophy crossed the Atlantic early in the 20th century did America turn to statism. Thus arose the personal income tax, inflation, the Great Depression, and the evil Internal Revenue Service--the Gestapo of America.

Seidman:
> ...And besides,
> for a country to usurp power from a democratic people it must get a
> 3/4 majority of the entire country...

Hunter: The fact that a country can, in theory, usurp power and wealth from its citizenry invalidates that country's basic premises. Rational beings require a social structure that cannot--in theory or practice--control, usurp, or kill innocent citizens. And that social structure is laissez-faire capitalism. The Local Group is now driving capitalism into the heart and soul of Citizens of Earth as revealed at http://localgroup.8m.com.

Seidman:
> ...the ineffective, taxless Articles
> of Confederation proved that taxation is necessary for a working
> country...

Hunter: Taxation is one means to finance government services. There are others. The problem with taxation are numerous:

1. Taxes provide unearned livelihoods for parasitical elites
2. Taxes provide unearned livelihoods for professional value destroyers
3. Taxes provide unearned livelihoods for supporters of parasitical elites
4. Taxes ultimately require gun-backed aggression against innocent citizens.
5. Taxes cripple everyone's lifeline: the market entrepreneur.

We must abolish taxes now. Citizens can finance their government by charging market rates for protective services--i.e., bodily and property protection.

Seidman:
> ...Plato's philosophy...has achieved a very successful
> nation...

Hunter: Yes, if human death is the standard. But in a Post-Mortal World, which The Local Group is now bringing down to earth, Plato's philosophy becomes an artifact of a bygone era--just like the Code of Hammurabi.

Seidman:
> ...And how can you call Kant and Hume irrational? They have the
> most logic-based definitions of all.

Hunter: In the searchable newsgroup post titled "Advanced Objectivist Epistemology", The Local Group reveals that Hume is the most innocent of all anticivilization philosophers. Still, both philosophers undermined man's survival mechanism: reason. By subverting reason, they were able to bury Aristotle's great work in epistemology. That caused Aristotle's Enlightenment to yield to Kant's Age of Irrationality.

Now, the Local Group surpasses Hume and Kant. How? By unleashing man's new survival mechanism: the perfect mind, which functions through reality-based principled thinking. For more information, see Chapter One of Perfect Mind/Perfect Body located at http://localgroup.8m.com/perfectmindperfectbody/chapter1/0101.htm.

Seidman:
> If this sounds like a cult sales pitch, raise your right hand and
> chant: "Dave is God, Dave is God..."

Hunter: Go ahead: try to join The Local Group. Then you'll find that The Local Group is not a group of people. It is an evolving group of 32 galaxies. The Local Group does not have any followers or leaders; it has no members or memberships. It has arrived via cyberspace to sublimate Citizens of Earth into Citizens of the Cosmos.

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